A Voice for Me?

contrarian-investingI just posted this to the forum of A Voice for Men. I’ve been participating there for about a month or so to try and get a hook on and monitor the other side of the ongoing gender debate. With recent events it’s just become too toxic and the final straw was me setting off a feminist journalist who I regard as one of the good ones with the potential of coming to mutual understanding.

People are always going to doubt my sincerity and read anything I do – in games, blogging or otherwise – in the worst possible light, but it’s not going to do me any favours to be associated with that site and I don’t want to be associated with it any more, especially if it makes discussion and respect impossible.

I need to find a space that suits me and a place where these kinds of things can be discussed more civilly with fewer preconceptions. I don’t know what form that’ll take yet, maybe a separate blog for men’s issues where I can invite people to participate in and to engage in discussion with and on in a different style. Suggestions are welcome.

At the moment no matter how sincere I am in my attempts to understand where people are coming from, it just leads to hatred and nastiness and there’s little or no reciprocity. This has necessitated me blocking a whole lot of people and creating a list of them so I can keep abreast of the latest dramas.

I’m not about to apologise for who I am, because who I am is not as I am painted by some. I am passionately interested in human rights as a whole, men’s issues in particular and other issues like creeping private censorship etc. Other than continuing to be sincere in my criticisms, arguments and attempts to understand, and to argue and fight in a more low-key and tone-controlled way, I don’t know how else to proceed.

Post follows:

***

When I came here I was clear that I didn’t regard myself as an MHRA, but just as an egalitarian humanist who took an interest in men’s issues.

While AVFM remains a good source of information and a clearing house of good data and well reasoned arguments – on the surface – many of the articles and much of the polemicism is aggravating and deliberately insulting and confrontational. I’m given to understand this is Mr Elam’s intent, as a means of garnering publicity through controversy but while this can sometimes work I feel that – in the current environment especially – it is counterproductive.

So counterproductive, in fact, that when I raised the current issue with the conference threats a feminist journalist I regard as one of the better ones didn’t feel able to condemn it, due to the harassment and rhetoric they’d received via this site. While I don’t think that remotely compares with threats of violence it does underline the problem.

I regard reason and stoicism as being cornerstone male traits and they have even been described that way – negatively – in feminist works. In my opinion it’s necessary to at least try to hold the moral high ground, to be consistent and to not engage in the kind of vicious behaviour and insult slinging men often endure from the radical feminist fringe.

As such I think I need to withdraw even my limited support and participation here – such as it is – and to find my own way to proceed without the negative associations and the toxicity that comes with aspects of this forum, the style many articles are presented in and association with PuA and MGTOW communities. While I think you’re wrong to continue as you are, I respect your right to do so. I just need to find a more measured approach that works for me.

I’m not sure what that’ll be yet.

My conversation (names etc redacted) is attached below.

@Femini Any comment on these conference threats? [REDACTED]

@OurHero I’m not surprised that a site as violent and prejudiced as AVFM has received threats of violence in return, no.

@Femini Could you point me at some of the violence at AVFM? I’ll disassociate myself more if it’s true. Would you condemn this at least?

@OurHero how about the Occidental College rape bombing?
@OurHero I’ll condemn it when Men’s Rights activists come out to condemn centuries of gendered violence and months of specific harassment.

@Femini ‘Dear Muslima…’

@OurHero and I feel like your asking me to condemn this says a lot about your priorities.
@OurHero this is just one of the disgusting things they’ve written about me- [REDACTED]
@OurHero here’s another [REDACTED] complete with professional threats, ‘fuck you you lying cunt’, etc.
@OurHero I have no idea who’s threatening AVFM. I wouldn’t pursue that course of action myself. But I don’t blame people for being angry.

@Femini I am biased. I have bad past experience with the fallout from moral panics and see it again, in this.
@Femini I’ll double check in a bit (in the middle of gardening) but I didn’t see any threats of violence there yet. In the comments?
@Femini Thanks for taking the time to give the refs anyway, I’ll check them out thoroughly in a bit.

@OurHero right. So it’s all fine because they’re not threatening to come to my house and hurt me. Got it.
@OurHero my patience with this is not infinite.

@Femini Being nasty is nasty, and I wish they wouldn’t, but it’s not violence or bomb threats. When you said violence I thought, violence.

@OurHero you seem to think what AVFM say about me is excusable. If so, we have nothing more to say to each other.
@OurHero right. Your position is clear. Given that you’ve also attacked friends of mine in your post about my [REDACTED], and deliberately
@OurHero >disbelieved harassment received by me, [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], I give up. I’m not going to engage with you for a while- it’s not good
@OurHero for my mental health.

@Femini And vice versa, though I was making an effort to start over. The criticisms were not intended to be attacks.
@Femini Understand the mental health thing though. Be well and get better soon. x

@OurHero ‘we were making progress’ could you be any more patronising? You have taught me nothing apart from how stubborn
@OurHero the self-pity of some corners of the MRA community can be. Don’t @ me or subtweet me again please.

@Femini I can’t leave that unanswered. ‘We’ as in both of us, as in I thought we were burying the hatchet and understanding a bit more.
@Femini I disagree with their polemical style, but that’s not unique to them and it’s not violence. Again, be well. Try again soon I hope.

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16 responses to “A Voice for Me?

  1. Welcome to the club I don;t always agree with AVfM either. On the other hand feminists would be wise to stick with the current MHRM and its strict policy of no violence. Especially since my own life has been so negatively impacted by feminism ever since I was nine years old – almost half a century – that I personally won’t settle for anything less than the public execution of all of the leading feminists from the second, third and fourth waves.

      • I’m neither moderate nor radical and always search out the truth of any issue before I take a stand of – course that doesn’t endear me to anyone with an axe to grind on either side.

        When I refer to public execution I mean just that by those placed in authority by the voting public – who hopefully will eventually one day make it clear that the nonsense generated by the feminists won’t be tolerated any longer.

  2. I wish you luck in this endeavor. It’s certainly not an easy task to figure out a gender politics superior to what either the feminists or the manospherians have to offer, but someone’s gotta do it. At least if there’s to be any hope for either men or women.

  3. I saw you on Al-Jazeera and feel like I understand your plight.i am a female who will not call herself a feminist anyone. i see a need to stop making certain issues gender specific. i am for Equal rights and thats it. The word ‘masculinism’ winds people up so why should ‘feminism’ be ok? I see the extreme feminists on a par with the chauvinists(theres a dated term ) They are the same kind of people.They have emotional and psychological reasons for their extreme views. Neither group is reasonable or logical. Men are under threat of male rape(we dont know how common male rape is because it is thought to be severely under-reported). I have been hurt emotionally far more by women than men. i have been hurt by both sexes. But I think its a lot healthier and more logical to look at this as being hurt by people who are arseholes…not labelling the perpetrators of abuse by gender. While i understand those women who have experienced abuse by a male being nervous and feeling vulnerable in certain situations (at a cashpoint was your example) I am fervently against the idea that this is or should be womens default position regarding all men.The above exchange is tragic. I cannot see any excuse for the rudeness with which you were treated…Maybe she was just too wound up by the other misogywankers and you got lumped in with them in her mind…No excuse though. Watching you I felt like muslims must feel when watching people bang on about terrorism and extremism – we are not all like that!!! most of us arent!!! i wish that debate had been longer…Seemed like there was a lot left unsaid by everyone( BTW did you get loads of tweets saying ”its ‘high-PER- bo-lee’ not HIGH-pa-bowl”’??…i made the same mistake on a YT video once….Its greek apparently and does sound better said correctly…but who knew??

    • Thank you for your comment. I have issues with Islam while also recognising that the stereotypes are inaccurate and yes, I can see the parallel.

      I think my accent made it sound like hi-pa-bowl, but I was saying hi-per-bowl. 🙂

      There was a lot left unsaid, but I’ve addressed some of them in the most recent blog post here.

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