Sarah, somehow involved in that mess of a book, left a comment but it’s easier to address in a new post.
Sarah Ali – (on behalf of God’s Gangstas and Fools and Rejects). This is a gracious attempt to respond to your posts. Frankly, there are too many inconsistencies for me to wade through. Here’s the main drag.
“You’re wrong, but I’m not going to tell you how… *sigh*.”
You continuously misrepresent the authors’ positions on Science and then, humorously, you launch into the usual creationist comebacks and 3rd grade cut and paste science lessons. How embarrassing! We need to reboot this conversation. For me it would be too long and silly to wade through. Just go back and read the book circumspectly and candidly. Cos, even worse is your understanding of the Bible. This makes our discussion become even more awkward.
The third grade crack seems to be a meme amongst you guys, a catchphrase that turns up a lot. However you’re rather missing the problem here. Your arguments are exactly the same as those of other creationists and thus the disproofs and debunkings are the same. C&P is not an indication of laziness or lack of knowledge but of the paucity of ideas and the lack of progress in religious apologetics when confronted with hard science.
Perhaps the authors should have been better at representing their position, if it’s not the positions that they wrote down.
And we are neither.
Scratch the surface and I’m afraid you are.
The Bottom Line? Look here, there is nothing in SCIENCE that holds true for you — that does not hold true for us. Nothing! Science is science, bud. Not yours. Not ours. Still you consistently assume that because you are an atheist, you somehow proudly stand for Science and Reason – meanwhile we, being Christian idiots, are anti-science. That’s … well, fried baloney. (See, no cussin’ necessary.)
Well you are. The book contains the same, usual misrepresentations of science and poor structuring of questions as other creationists. The main difference between you and other creationists is your self perception.
Remember we are sending a rep to America to represent Science and to tear down Creation Science in an upcoming trial.
Rather ironic really.
So to claim some special super-elite status because you subscribe to the scientific method, only confirms to us that — you either did not read the book candidly —or you did not understand it. Or, as I suspect – you do not want to tar your social gains as an atheist blogger by acquiescing to a bunch of Bible – thumping idiots.
Or that I did and your presentation and content is flawed and you’re being dishonest.
1. The Bible was written by hundreds of ancient prophets (who the religious world claim to represent; hence their opponents like yourself then attack the holy book and denigrate its prophets as a bunch of self-deluded, ancient fools).
Which they are.
However, it’s sufficient for atheism that there’s no evidence for any god.
2. Next, the Bible records that a man called Jesus (if you believe in him or not — is of zero importance to us and to the treatise) said that everyone born of the Spirit will speak in other tongues.
Did it happen? Does it happen?
We were once hardcore Communistic, church-burning-type atheists (not social-bonding, chest-beating ranters and Dawkins’ mini-clones) and to make long story short; we decided to put Jesus and the Bible to the test. And in an instant we atheists were filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in new tongues – just as Jesus said — and as also demonstrated throughout the Book of Acts and by hundreds of millions of other ignorant memes like us. That’s our story.
And I have no reason to believe it or that your claimed experiences are any different to the experiences of people in other religions who make the same unevidenced claims for THEIR gods.
3. But that is only the outward evidence, Grim!
It’s not evidence, it’s claims.
Have you ever had South American caca-belly fish — mixed with achar? Of course not. If we told you that it would enflame your gums and give you nightmares for weeks. How will you know if this is true or not? What if two or three guys say it’s not true. But 300 million say that it is. The only way to honestly determine the truth for yourself — would be to honestly and empirically test it — for yourself. No?
Argumentum ad populum, logical fallacy.
Now you’re probably reaching to debunk “our appeal to authority” argument. But here’s the problem. This is not a fairy-airy, religious pie-in-de-sky-type, faith argument, this is a real empirical phenomenon – promised by Jesus and then confirmed in the Bible, then throughout history by hundreds of millions and … HEY, DUDE — IN OUR DELUDED LITTLE LIVES.
I refer you back to the previous post about ‘speaking in tongues’. Incidentally that’s been interpreted many different ways throughout history.
How on Earth, pray tell, can you so smugly and blatantly deny its veracity? If you do not have a desire to seek the answers to the miracle of your own life — for yourself — that’s fine, party on — but we are struck that many would desperately try to convince others that they have the goods on Life and Death — based on their unbeatable powers of reason. That would be just as cruel as our religious oppressors.
Why presume it has not been experimented on? The claims of the Bible – and other holy texts – simply do not hold up when examined. and tested.
“Its one thing to convince one’s own heart that the miracle of YOUR existence ends here [that’s totally fine] but it’s another thing to feverishly convince others to give up THEIR search.” Surprise Endings
It is an act of compassion to disavow someone of their dangerous delusions.
As explained in the book, we both have a common enemy: Religion.
You ARE religious.
Yes, keep fighting Religion — but before you denigrate and belittle hundreds of ancient prophets, we graciously advise you to examine their words for yourself and prove them.
I have. They are found wanting. Disproven, not proven.